See "USMSS seeks FCC guidance for dealing with non-compliant operators" to learn more.
Follow FCC guidelines by refusing to add the frequencies, but do not report the customer request
65% (157 votes)
Follow FCC guidelines by refusing to add the frequencies, and report the customer to the FCC
25% (60 votes)
Risk FCC penalties (What are the odds of the agency enforcement?) and add the frequencies, thereby keeping the customer happy
6% (14 votes)
Take other action (leave a comment)
4% (10 votes)
Total voters: 241
Discuss this poll 42
Since many of the commercial repeaters go into the amateur band and are purchased for such use, will you still be able to program the 25khz 448mhz amateur frequencies on that new just purchased in 2013 repeater? If not where will the amateurs get the repeaters since no amateur repeater manufacturers really exist.
When the shops were required to have technicians with first and second class radiotelephone licenses there was more control because loosing your license you could loose your business. Today with all the so-called technicians that only tinker with your radio and sales people that only sell and program and do not know anything about communications, I feel that the FCC created a problem and they can not fix it. You will never see the FCC go after a big box store and fine them.
correction: ...Adjacent channel interference won't happen.
If I follow the letter of the Law I would program the Radio as asked to do, reduce the deviation to 2.5Kc, then explain to the customer that if he experienced any interference I would order him a IF filter to narrow band the receiver to eliminate said interference. The Law only states the Transmitter meet the new standards, any equipment being sold now must meet the new regs and be placarded as such. Now I have committed Hybauchery! by telling you all of this if I also told you that you can't divide 30Kc by 12.5Kc equally then they could also charge me with an attempt to commit Mopery in at least the Second degree!!! Note: Be especially careful changing those wiperblades on that Duck's Ass!
Trying to put 12.5 Khz Channels where 30 Khz spacing
was AND LEAVE THE INCUMBENTS alone is another
colossal FCC error. Those square pegs STILL don' fit
in those round holes.They, the FCC needs to go back to
mandating windshield wipers on a goats ass.FCC told the coordinators,"just do the best you can." It won't and don't work.
Yet another problem... P 25 shared with FM channels
"Armstrong's revenge. Will they ever wise up?
Tell your customer that the FCC understands payoffs from
manufacturers. Also inform that they don't understand FM too
well.
Major,Edwin Howard Armstrong ( from my grave)
.... You MAY need to NB the receiver also.Do a study.
signed , the original narrow bandit
Expose the FCC fraud. Commit the perfect crime. Reduce the
dev. on their transmitters to +/- 2.5. Modify the license. And
get on down the road.No co-channel interference will result!
No complaints.You' have beat the system that tried to beat you
and your client!
I like all the honesty, but where was it when new radio's were sold that would only be good for 12 months and then be non compliant
One can certainly tell we not only have a bunch of (rats) on here but a bunch of radio police who don't know much except to jump the gun. If a customer brings me a WIDEBAND only radio such as a Motorola GP350 and he wants to put it on GMRS (462), I am going to do it. Just like the digital televsion change over was shoved down our throats, so is this narrowband BS. One thing about Americans, they are like the sheep, do what they are told or tattle to the high power government.
Following the LAW is not only the right thing to do on its own merit, but if all radio service shops/dealers followed the FCC rules every licensed radio user would experience less interference and their overall radio performance would be improved. That's why everyone need to follow the guidelines. Be honest anonymous, your concern isn't about the customer only that you can make a buck any way possible.
Close the shop lay off help go fishing
CFR 47 Part 90.427(b) ."..no person shall program into a transmitter frequencies for which the licensee using the transmitter is not authorized."
Point # 1: No Licensee is now authorized for 25 KHz.
Point # 2: It is equaly illegal to program 12.5 KHz if the user is not licensed or otherwise authorized for that freq, that ERP, or that station class, or in the case of infrastructure - that location.
Is a repair technician really required to examine all documentation associated with a licesee's operation prior to repairing a radio? If the licensee says, make this radio work on my system, then maybe so.
If, on the other hand, the licensee comes into the shop and asks for specific frequencies, and bands, then the licensee bears the responsibility for legal operation.
Ethics requires us to highlight any issues we identify or suspect, and document we have done so, but we are not enforcers, we are not lawyers.
"Is a repair technician really required to examine all documentation associated with a licesee's operation prior to repairing a radio?"
The short answer is yes. How many do it? Not enough. These days especially it's so easy to do, that there really is no excuse not to. And regular customers you should know this anyway.
The proposition is flawed on it's face. Unless there is a valid waiver in place, there are NO '25kHz' [actually + - 5kHz] channels. As I said in another comment that apparently wasn't approved, I recommended putting in whatever frequencies the user has license(s)/letter(s) of authorization for with narrowband modulation.
Amen! You are one of the few that actually understand this
NB fraud!
Initials Only , FM
As a licensed service tech, it's my responsibility to follow the FCC guidelines in programming (or not) requested channels and capabilities in my customers' radios. As a business owner, it's my responsibility to help my clients understand the FCC rulings and how they are affected. I should explain to the customer why I can't do as he requests. It is not my responsibility to report a request to the FCC. The customer may not have understood the new limitations. I do feel we should report non-compliance because it will cause interference with other users who are following the mandate, just like we would report users tuning to an "off-frequency" channel to avoid other users.
In my opinion, programming the customer's radio would be like selling a gun to a person who knowlingly failed their background check. It may be mostly the owner's responsibility to be legal, but why would we willingly aid them in breaking the law.
I try to explain to the customer their obligation to follow the rules much like I have to. It has been a loss of business a couple of time. Much like refusing to work on 'trucker' CB sets which are designed and called "10M amateur radios". They pay big bucks for service. Refusing to repair them has cost us untold 1000s in past couple of years. Seems there is no enforcement except on the those that try to abide by the rules.
As I understand it, ever since the first and second phone licenses were eliminated and everyone with one was given a general radiotelephone operator's license, the station licensee is the only one responsible for legal operation of his transmitter, not the repair tech. If the station licensee has requested a change to his equipment that is in violation, he is the only one responsible for the consequences and the one to get a citation. Just have documentation that he requested the change ready if the FCC asks.
Yes, It is the "Licensee's" is the responsible person. The FCC eliminated the need for a service shop to have a licensed Tech, thereby now making the user/owner/licensee responsible. Can't take a license away if the Tech hasn't got one.
Obviously you don't know the true definition of ethics as long as dollar signs are in your eyes.
I would estimate that thirty or more percent of the radios out there are programmed by the end user. Everybody with a computer is in the radio business. If you work out of the back end of a Chevy or Ford, then you probably don't care what you program into a radio. If you have an established business, you will most likely explain to the customer the current rules and refuse to add a frequency using wide band emission.
No, as was stated earlier, shops can be (and have been) fined for illegal programming of radios. Also, I am a licensed tech (30+ years), and I can be subject to penalties also. I do not wish to jeopardize my license that I worked so hard for those many years ago.
Shops have a legal obligation to NOT put frequencies in a radio that a licensee/customer is not authorized for. That includes wideband channels when none have been authorized by waiver or other means. In fact, the policy I see is that if someone brings in a radio that is still wideband, the shop should tell the customer that it is not operating legally, and offer to change it. If the customer refuses to allow that, then the shop should send them packing. I am also not above making it knows when another shop has been known to put customers in places they don't belong.
The only responsibility of the radio shop is to comply with the regulations and not program equipment other than what the license / regulations apply. Inform the customer and/or license holder of the request for any wideband operation requests. End of story.
It is the FCC and license holder that have the binding agreement as to operations on granted frequencies. Radio shops should simply be aware of the licensee and their permissions as was the case prior to narrowbanding.
Could it be that there is not a good understanding of narrowband? IF the freq asked for is on the narrowband freq. and it is programmed narrow in a NB radio, how has the radio shop done anything wrong? If I understand it correctly, wdn't every other 25 spacing be the same as NB freq?
Check the FCC rules. If you program frequencies or modes in a customer radio, the FCC can and has gone after the radio shop.
Follow FCC guidlines and inform the customer why they cannot have the 25kHz spacing. If they persist then report them to the FCC.
The FCC many many years ago removed the responsibility for broadcasters to have a licensed operator and passed this reponsibility to the licensee for proper operation. I do not see any service shop as a police agency. They should do what they are asked but informally reminde the client that they are no longer in compliance.
The risk / punishment should lie with the operator of the non compliant system. The shop should not be the enforcer of the FCC's rules in all matters. What of small communities / departments that do not have the funding to replace equipment yet?
If the new equipment is narrowband analog and on their licensed wideband channel, by all means do it, but don't add frequencies or digital emission equipment without proper licensing.
Follow the FCC Guidelines, inform the customer preferably in writing (Shop Admin or owner) on first attempt. Second attempts should require notification to the FCC.
The FCC needs to start enforcement their Rules and Regulations concerning narrowbanding.
It is bad enough that we have very little technical expertise in the FCC manned by Lawyers these days. However we don't need the mayhem caused by rouge operators excessive bandwidth exploitations crippling communications on newly assigned interstitial frequencies. REPORT ILLEGAL USE!
Offer to assist the customer in understanding the regulations at no cost, and then sell them a new system. If they don't want to buy a new system but willing to pay me $40,000 to do the programming, I'd take their money, program the radio and give them a new system for free. Then I'd take back the radio and replace with one that will work on their brand new system. Otherwise, I'd turn them in.
whack them with a stick
FCC should be notified, because customer is non- compliant. Only exception would be if there is proof of a waiver.
The FCC is the arbiter of frequency usage. Operators are responsible for their own behavior. Radio repair should have no role in being an enforcement agent of the FCC. Repair agents may highlight issues that may or may not put an operator in violation of FCC regulations but the accountability for operation rests soley on the operator. If, on the other hand, a customer has contracted for system design, then there is an expectation that the expert will supply them with a compliant system and there is additional responsibility borne by the designer and a non-compliant feature should not be supplied.
Law is the Law whether we as Shop owners like it or not. It's not our job to police it though.
Explain to the customer that they are in violation of law, refuse to do the request and offer to assist them.
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